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According to our discussion in BetaMasaheft/Documentation#3264.
CarstenHoffmannMarburg
requested review from
MagdaKrzyz,
e-schwarz and
eu-genia
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <state type="existence" ref="MoPe"/> | ||
| <location> | ||
| <geo>13.1073 39.42997</geo> | ||
| <note>In the village of Muǧā, near ʾAddi Qorqorā and Tegorā, ca. 50 km to the south of |
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ʿAddi
It is either Tǝgorā or Tagorā. They transcribe both 1st and 6th order with "e" on the map. I could not find the name of the village in the Internet to tell you more.
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I found ተጎራ and Adi Togora on googlemaps. I will update the transcription to Tagorā.
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <state type="existence" ref="MoPe"/> | ||
| <location> | ||
| <geo>13.1073 39.42997</geo> | ||
| <note>In the village of Muǧā, near ʾAddi Qorqorā and Tegorā, ca. 50 km to the south of |
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judging by Ellero Muǧā is a district and it is some 20 km to the south
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| </place> | ||
| <listRelation> | ||
| <relation name="lawd:hasAttestation" active="LOC7489EndaMAngwa" passive="ANLcr44"><desc>Confirmation of a | ||
| donation by <persName ref="PRS10378Yohanne"/> to <placeName ref="LOC7489EndaMAngwa"/>, accomplished on the |
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No. this is wrong. we have a note in the manuscript possibly dated to 1916 but no donation from Yohannes is possible in 1916 as he had long been dead. He was killed in 1889 as I had already written.
It would be better since we create the place based on Ellero reproduce what we know from Ellero (that it became gadām under Yohannes etc etc - what I had already posted in the issue), do not create the relation here at all, but from the manuscript you can say that the Enda Maryam mentioned in the note MIGHT be the one sponsored by Yohannes, which we do not know for sure. For sure the anachronistic document is not a contemporary document but some rendering of an oral tradition.
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Please read carefully again BetaMasaheft/Documentation#3264
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <state type="existence" ref="MoPe"/> | ||
| <location> | ||
| <geo>13.1073 39.42997</geo> |
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where do you take this from? there are no coordinates in Ellero, his map is approximate, I only pointed where there is a Muja but there are also other Mujas around, Muja is a district in Ellero's map as you surely have seen
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It is a district but the contemporary map shows exactly this region, so Carsten is almost right.
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Yes, it would be better to create a LOC for a district and place the place in the district; exact coordinates for the monastery itself are difficult
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mapcarta has https://mapcarta.com/N1150698264 I posted in the issue but also at the same time https://mapcarta.com/N1150924011 so it is not an exact science, the district is anywhere around these two Mujas
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <geo>13.1073 39.42997</geo> | ||
| <note>In the village of Muǧā, near ʾAddi Qorqorā and Tegorā, ca. 50 km to the south of | ||
| <placeName ref="LOC4545Maqala"/>.</note></location> | ||
| <location><note>Near <placeName ref="LOC4545Maqala"/>.</note></location> |
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may I repeat that it may be good to reproduce what we know from Ellero - foundation according to the tradition, support with gult and rest from Yohannes, promotion to gadam. Also the information that they follow the order of Dabra Libanos is valuable
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Location in the district of Muja is also important as it may help more precise identification at some point as the district still exists today
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Also the information that they follow the order of Dabra Libanos is valuable
Is it LOC2297DabraL or LOC2296DabraL
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Dabra Libanos of Shoa is of course LOC2297DabraL = INS0341DL, Ellero clearly speaks of the rule of Takla Haymanot (PRS9162TaklaHa) who was the main saint of Ethiopia. Important for Tigray where many monasteries follow Estifanos or Ewostatewos rule.
LOC2296DabraL is dedicated to Abuna Mata, is in Eritrea, and has nothing to do with Takla Haymanot.
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OK. I will use LOC2297DabraL .
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <text> | ||
| <body> | ||
| <listPlace> | ||
| <place type="monastery"> |
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <region notBefore="1991" type="RegionalState" ref="LOC5932Tegray"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <district>Muǧā</district> | ||
| <location><note>Near <placeName ref="LOC4545Maqala"/>.</note></location> |
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Where is this "near Maqala" come from? From Ellero we only know that it is in the district of Muja which is part of the Hentalo warada and some 20 km south of Maqala
"near Maqala" is the monastery mentioned in the manuscript which we tentatively identify with this one but it is not for this record.
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Since this is a record created EXCLUSIVELY on the basis of Ellero's notes please only use the information provided by Ellero but also as completely as possible.
So we know that it is a monastery gadam in Muja subdistrict of Hentalo warada of Endarta historical province. These are reliable data that we have on the location.
When creating the record we use only the source for the record.
What is written in the manuscript note is irrelevant as we DO NOT KNOW if it is the same place at all. And near is very vague.
We are now speaking about a place described by Ellero which is located where Ellero placed it.
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Where is this "near Maqala" come from? From Ellero we only know that it is in the district of Muja which is part of the Hentalo warada and some 20 km south of Maqala
"near Maqala" is the monastery mentioned in the manuscript which we tentatively identify with this one but it is not for this record.
I thought, if we are not sure about the distance from Maqala to Muǧā, the expression "near Maqala" is the safest possibility. I do not find the place, where Ellero explicitely stated, that it is 20 km. I think you took this information from the map in his publication. But maps in the first half of the 20th century are often sketchy and misleading. For this reason, I still believe that Muggiam in Ellero is the same place as Muǧā/Mudzha in mapcarta and googlemaps.
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <persName ref="PRS10303Yekunno"/>, i.e. <date type="foundation" notBefore="1270" notAfter="1285" precision="low"/>. | ||
| Later <persName ref="PRS10378Yohanne"/> is reported to have supported it with gʷǝlt and rǝst grants and promoted it to | ||
| a gadām. According to Ellero’s information, the monastery followed the order of Dabra Libānos. | ||
| <!-- Is it LOC2297DabraL or LOC2296DabraL --></ab> |
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the order of Takla Haymanot
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OK. So I will use PRS9162TaklaHa and not refer to LOC2297DabraL.
| </listBibl> | ||
| <note> | ||
| <ab type="history">According to the oral tradition recorded by <bibl><ptr target="bm:Ellero1941Enderta"/> | ||
| <citedRange unit="page">172</citedRange></bibl>, it was a dabr founded during the time of |
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note that in order for the users to be able to understand what "Ellero 1941" means you must create a bibliography just like in any publication
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I have added listBibl to place as I have seen it in LOC4545Maqala. Is this incorrect? Should I rather include listBibl directly in body?
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Sorry I did not notice, it is OK!
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <ab type="history">According to the oral tradition recorded by <bibl><ptr target="bm:Ellero1941Enderta"/> | ||
| <citedRange unit="page">172</citedRange></bibl>, it was a dabr founded during the time of | ||
| <persName ref="PRS10303Yekunno"/>, i.e. <date type="foundation" notBefore="1270" notAfter="1285" precision="low"/>, | ||
| which became gadam during the rule of <persName ref="PRS10378Yohanne"/>. At the time of Ellero's visit it had 3 monks, |
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you can also mark up Ellero
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PRS3740Ellero, I see.
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <ab type="history">According to the oral tradition recorded by <bibl><ptr target="bm:Ellero1941Enderta"/> | ||
| <citedRange unit="page">172</citedRange></bibl>, it was a dabr founded during the time of | ||
| <persName ref="PRS10303Yekunno"/>, i.e. <date type="foundation" notBefore="1270" notAfter="1285" precision="low"/>, | ||
| which became gadam during the rule of <persName ref="PRS10378Yohanne"/>. At the time of Ellero's visit it had 3 monks, |
According to Eugenias requests.
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <ab type="history">According to the oral tradition recorded by <bibl><ptr target="bm:Ellero1941Enderta"/> | ||
| <citedRange unit="page">172</citedRange></bibl>, it was a dabr founded during the time of | ||
| <persName ref="PRS10303Yekunno"/>, i.e. <date type="foundation" notBefore="1270" notAfter="1285" precision="low"/>, | ||
| which became gadam during the rule of <persName ref="PRS10378Yohanne"/>. At the time of |
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <country ref="LOC3010Ethiop"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" type="RegionalState" ref="LOC5932Tegray"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <district>Muǧā</district> |
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you still could provide the location as I described it for you.
Endarta province
Hentalo warada
Muja district
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now this should be updated in accordance with the guidelines
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <region notBefore="1991" type="RegionalState" ref="LOC5932Tegray"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <region ref="LOC2947Endart"/> | ||
| <district>Hǝnṭalo waradā</district> |
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we have LOC1478Antalo however only for the town, the warada could be created
check how types of locations are assigned in the guidelines. it is not district
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I did not find any precise information on type of region, province or district in Guidelines (Places). Have I overlooked something.
If it is not district, it should be region, no?
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Did you check the guidelines for places? And see example 7?
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I took the encoding from LOC4545Maqala, which I thought is correct and suitable here. I thought that <region>/<district> and <settlement> are equivalent with <region>/<district> being more precise. I can change the records in this branch to <settlement>, if this is beneficial.
I did not know which type is accepted in each case, because oxygen made no suggestions. I can understand, that the type in for each record should be the type in in any references in other records. However, some records have several types as LOC2947Endart has region and warada. LOC6655SudTegray has zoba and zone. Can I select one of these?
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let us not confuse things. Endarta is a historical province/warada. it is located in the historical Tigray province. There is no Endarta as administrative unit of zoba of today
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The record on Endarta is correct and is correctly linked to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17108067
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The monastery Ellero visited was in Endarta province. The district of Muja today lies in Hentalo warada. I do not understand your problem or why you fail to accept that place names and regional boundaries may change in time.
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Monastery lied in the historical Endarta which is part of historical Tigray.
The district which still exists today (we do not know about the monastery) lies in the present day Hentalo warada which is part of South Tigray.
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It can as we can always specify dates. Endarta is a HISTORICAL province. Today there is a Hentalo warada. Please check the institutions of Ethio-SPaRe, they usually have a very nice information on locality.
In this case, I should add notBefore and notAfter to the tags again. Otherwise it would not be comprehensive for the users.
What do you mean with checking the institutions of Ethio-SPaRe ? Do you speak about the ETHIO-Authority Files spreadsheet ?
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I mean institutions in Bm for ES. They all have chronological attributes to places.
I created a record on ANL cr 44. I have no idea for Daǧǧāzmāč Mikāʾel in ms_i1.20 and obstained from encoding him. I created a new place record for LOC7489EndaMAngwa (cf. BetaMasaheft/Places#175) I created a person record for Germay in BetaMasaheft/Persons#1327
1001-2000/LOC1478Antalo.xml
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| <country ref="LOC3010Ethiop"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" type="RegionalState" ref="LOC5932Tegray"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <region ref="LOC2947Endart"/> |
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did you really really check the guidelines?
1001-2000/LOC1478Antalo.xml
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| @@ -51,6 +52,11 @@ type="application/xml" schematypens="http://purl.oclc.org/dsdl/schematron"?><TEI | |||
| <placeName>Anṭalo</placeName> | |||
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if you edit then please fix the names
new/LOC7490AntaloWa.xml
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| <body> | ||
| <listPlace> | ||
| <place type="warada"> | ||
| <placeName>Anṭalo (waradā)</placeName> |
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please if creating or editing records use the correct spelling. the main variant in Tgn is Hǝnṭalo of course all must be as usual provided in fidal and normalized with xml:id
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normally when creating through the app it should be pre-filled correctly
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It is difficult for me do distinguish between Tigrina, Amharic and Geez forms. If Hǝnṭalo is the main form in Tigrina, what are the others? Secondary Tigrina forms or Amharic or Geez?
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By the way, Wikipedia has Hǝnṭālo with long ā as Tigrina variant. I should probably encode both a/ā in all forms.
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We also have long ā
In EAe a = long ä = short
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There is no variant with a short a
new/LOC7489EndaMAngwa.xml
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| <country ref="LOC3010Ethiop"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" type="RegionalState" ref="LOC5932Tegray"/> | ||
| <region notBefore="1991" ref="LOC6655SudTegray"/> | ||
| <district>Muǧā</district> |
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now this should be updated in accordance with the guidelines
* Create ANLcr44.xml I created a record on ANL cr 44. I have no idea for Daǧǧāzmāč Mikāʾel in ms_i1.20 and obstained from encoding him. I created a new place record for LOC7489EndaMAngwa (cf. BetaMasaheft/Places#175) I created a person record for Germay in BetaMasaheft/Persons#1327 * Updates according to Magdas requests * Nǝbura ʾƎd * First, ʾƎd
4 participants
According to our discussion in BetaMasaheft/Documentation#3264.